There is no such thing as classy porn.

It's a fine line. Certainly there is classy erotica.

Is this a 'no true Scotsman' claim?

I would think a lot of Indian statues are pretty classy and fairly erotic. I think erotica is just a term for classy porn.

That's what I'm thinking. There are some very tasteful and erotic nudes in painting and photography and video. I would classify that as classy porn.

My concern is that the claimiant has defined porn as erotica that is not classy.

Slart++

And yet no one disagrees.

nic: There is no such thing as classy porn.

Robert Mapplethorpe
Igor Amelkovich
Will Santillo

No picture here I'm afraid, precisely because the claim is true.

The jyte Terms of Service pretty clearly prohibit erotic material of any sort ("nudity").

But this ... :

... is a pretty classy piece, don't you think?

**GRIN**

Everything is relative and most proles would consider even Lady Sonia, Britain's number one fetishist, "classy".

@LD you think that's porn?

I don't think it's a no-true-scotsman thing to draw a line between erotica and porn. Everybody has such a line, it's pretty personal and indefinable I reckon.

That is why there are two words (as opposed to "true scotsman" which is two, you may have noticed). porn and erotica mean different things.

It's a No True Scotsman if you define porn as erotic material that isn't classy and then make a claim that there is no classy porn.

I don't define porn that way. I define porn as something designed to tittilate, and I think some of it is classy. I think erotica is a term with more or less the same meaning, but a different flavor, much like "big" and "huge".

Hmmm... I disagree. Scotsman are scotsman but what is the definition of pornography? I think it may be material that is designed to arouse that is not classy.

if you immediately lose all interest in it post-climax, it's porn

@LD you think that's porn?

What, the picture? No. That was a joke, nic.

But each of the photographers I noted have produced work which is simultaneously artful (classy) and porn-ish. The same is true of many Japanese erotic prints. They're pretty raunchy (graphic depictions of genitalia), but the better ones demonstrate powerful artistry, as well.

kmarx++

That was a joke, nic.

BTW: On the internet(s), the string "**GRIN**"" is considered a typical indication of this.

Slarti++
kmarx++
Rachel++

==

Slartimarxachel

The string **GRIN**? You are so hip and with it LD. I wish I was as cool and clever as you.

Thank you, I will record these points in my register.

I wish I was as cool and clever as you.

yes, well ... good luck with that

It's a good claim--got people thinking. kudos

It's funny that people have focused on the definitions of pornography and erotic. I think the definition of classy is far more problematic.

I mean erotica, not erotic

Agreed. I dispute that many people would suggest that Lady Sonia is classy. Perhaps that's my class snobbery though.

Ok I googled that. It's extremely classy, in so far as it's basically the sexualization of class. You sick fuck.

I said:
"My concern is that the claimiant has defined porn as erotica that is not classy. "

nic commented:
"Hmmm... I disagree. Scotsman are scotsman but what is the definition of pornography? I think it may be material that is designed to arouse that is not classy."

Interesting. Let me show you where you are wrong. Where you are wrong, let me show you it.

1. Logical:
If your definition of porn is: "material that is designed to arouse that is not classy", then let me reword your claim as you meant it:
"There is no such thing as classy material that is designed to arouse that is not classy."

Gee, it looks like your claim answered itself (a tautology), but wasn't very informative. Either you were lying to yourself (or hadn't fully formed your definition), were interested in other people's definitions (doesn't seem likely from the discussion so far), or were planning to come back and try to "trap" us by redefining the word. Am I close?

2. True Scotsman:
This is the epitome of the "No true Scotsman" argument. You take a word describing a category, (a statement of nationality, or perhaps a type of art) and redefine it by rejecting those category members that conflict with your new definition. "That's not porn, it's erotica (you can tell because it is classy)."

For help on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

nic: Perhaps that's my class snobbery though.

Mapplethorpe was esteemed by scads of edgy upper crust socialites in his time. Also sold coffee table books of afore-noted classy porn.

@LD no. My claim is "there is no such thing as classy porn". My comment said "maybe". The claim seeks to affirm the definition, my comment doesn't conclude it.

So my claim can be reworded thusly:

there is a category of published material called pornography that may be differentiated from erotica by it's lack of perceived "class".

But it's a claim. Because it doesn't define pornography or class it has to stand on it's own and be voted on it's own.

That doesn't mean it's a no-true-scotsman except in as much as people seek to define "true scotsman" when they make such claims.

I can't find a definition of pornography that differs much from the definition of erotica. And yet, I think most people carry such a definition. One hears enough of the time "that's not pornography that's erotica" or the reverse.

The trouble is now, it's not possible to get an understanding of the social norm here because Jyters have turned this into a discussion of logical fallacies.

And btw just because socialites buy something doesn't mean it's classy, even to them. Does Paris think coke is classy? Is loo roll? Are tampons? Is Paris even classy?

"if you immediately lose all interest in it post-climax, it's porn" (kmarx)

Mayhaps you should claim this one, Spectre.

I once lost interest in some porn pre-climax. Or was it really porn?

Erotica doesn't exist except in the hearts and minds of fools too puritanical to admit they look at porn.

kmarx++

I tend to think of porn as mainly videos and pictures, though it would be possible for someeone like David Lynch to make a film that would be considered "erotica". The bowl of fruit is relating to sexuality, but it isn't really as stimulating as a 10-minute video on the Intertubes would be.

A lot of porn is pure text stories.

ooo! I'd like to see some claims about that because a lot of writers of erotic fiction don't seem to like the label "pornography".

Here in the states, they don't like calling it erotic fiction, either. They call them 'romance novels'.