It would be preferable for social pressure to regulate birth rate instead of the government, but http://andreaspizsa.myopenid.com/ and I agree that this is very unlikely.
It may seem to you like we’d agree, Ben, but we don’t. :)
I personally don’t care much about "social pressure", because any such "pressure" still gives me the freedom to choose for myself and doesn’t include coercion. It’s absolutely ok to disagree on certain subjects and therefore leave each other alone, or just get along fine with each other.
What you’re saying, if I understand you correctly, is that if you don’t get a majority (a weird concept all by itself) to support you personal ideas, you’re simply willing to use force on all who disagree.
A, I've got to tell you, like most people, I'm a big fan of ME. I've got big problems with people who threaten me, regardless if this is being done by pointing a gun at me, setting my house on fire, or creating an unsustainable strain on the planet I'm on.
We are lucky to exist in a time frame where overpopulation is not quite enough of a concrete and visible threat to mandate the more horrific ways of protecting ourselves from this threat. I believe that it is irresponsible to avoid placing a social and ethical framework to discourage creating this sub-optimal situation.
Ben: like I said earlier, if you're afraid of "Overpopulation", just go kill yourself and set a good example. If you don’t, you're saying that your life has a higher value than anyone else’s. If that’s what you think, that‘s ok with me; just be honest.
You’re calling an "ethical framework" what actually is a tightly regulated, totalitarian jurisdiction. None of your proposed solutions and implied actions is "ethcial", not by any definition. Which is sad, because I’m quite sure that you have good intentions.
Only in the throws of ill advised internet knee jerk reaction will I propose either totalitarian jurisdiction or eating babies. That's a lie, sometimes I have a few beers and I joke about eating babies, but only occasionally. The only solution I have proposed is to help make it clear to those around us, through words and actions(other than eating babies), that: 1. We've got a problem getting enough food, water, and shelter for everybody. 2. Heedlessly reproducing will aggravate this. 3. This problem is likely to effect you or your offspring should you live long enough or have offspring. Soo, I know I've been roundabout in addressing your points. Let me get to that. Yes, self preservation is consistent with, if not the driving force behind my belief in ZPG. The only person to suggest totalitarian jurisdiction or regulations was you, although I know you only did so to prove a point. Perhaps there is some confusion here because of my agreement with the claim that one could commit suicide to set a good example. This is entirely my fault for being a pedant. Please forgive me. Certainly one could set an example for ZPG by killing oneself, despite the fact that it would be a rather stupid thing to do.
Discussion (6)
It would be preferable for social pressure to regulate birth rate instead of the government, but http://andreaspizsa.myopenid.com/ and I agree that this is very unlikely.
It may seem to you like we’d agree, Ben, but we don’t. :)
I personally don’t care much about "social pressure", because any such "pressure" still gives me the freedom to choose for myself and doesn’t include coercion. It’s absolutely ok to disagree on certain subjects and therefore leave each other alone, or just get along fine with each other.
What you’re saying, if I understand you correctly, is that if you don’t get a majority (a weird concept all by itself) to support you personal ideas, you’re simply willing to use force on all who disagree.
Best,A.
A, I've got to tell you, like most people, I'm a big fan of ME. I've got big problems with people who threaten me, regardless if this is being done by pointing a gun at me, setting my house on fire, or creating an unsustainable strain on the planet I'm on.
We are lucky to exist in a time frame where overpopulation is not quite enough of a concrete and visible threat to mandate the more horrific ways of protecting ourselves from this threat. I believe that it is irresponsible to avoid placing a social and ethical framework to discourage creating this sub-optimal situation.
Ben: like I said earlier, if you're afraid of "Overpopulation", just go kill yourself and set a good example. If you don’t, you're saying that your life has a higher value than anyone else’s. If that’s what you think, that‘s ok with me; just be honest.
You’re calling an "ethical framework" what actually is a tightly regulated, totalitarian jurisdiction. None of your proposed solutions and implied actions is "ethcial", not by any definition. Which is sad, because I’m quite sure that you have good intentions.
A.
Only in the throws of ill advised internet knee jerk reaction will I propose either totalitarian jurisdiction or eating babies.
That's a lie, sometimes I have a few beers and I joke about eating babies, but only occasionally.
The only solution I have proposed is to help make it clear to those around us, through words and actions(other than eating babies), that:
1. We've got a problem getting enough food, water, and shelter for everybody.
2. Heedlessly reproducing will aggravate this.
3. This problem is likely to effect you or your offspring should you live long enough or have offspring.
Soo, I know I've been roundabout in addressing your points. Let me get to that. Yes, self preservation is consistent with, if not the driving force behind my belief in ZPG. The only person to suggest totalitarian jurisdiction or regulations was you, although I know you only did so to prove a point.
Perhaps there is some confusion here because of my agreement with the claim that one could commit suicide to set a good example. This is entirely my fault for being a pedant. Please forgive me. Certainly one could set an example for ZPG by killing oneself, despite the fact that it would be a rather stupid thing to do.
I'm moving to China.
Claims inspired by this comment
China's governmental regulation of birth rates hasn't worked out so well, and is likely to lead to war.